The Art World Today
With the topic of art theft coming up which then led to the discussion of modern art, post here for any topics concerning the art world today.

Where we left off in the Shoutbox (Click to View)
I think something, that comes with inspiration, creativity and message is something, that you can call art.

This can be everything: Pictures, Music, Movies, TV Shows, Games.... Say, the whole genre of media
Yep, art is art.
Art can be good, art can be bad, and even if you don't like it: It's still art.

But people who want to deny anything to be qualified as "art" just because they dislike it, present some really odd disqualifications that also end up taking out other mediums/genres too.

And there's always the 90% chance they will bring up Marcel Duchamp in their reasoning why they don't like something and say it shouldn't be called art.
They don't even have to say his name, just posting an image of Duchamp's Fountain and going, "WHY IS THIS DISPLAYED IN ART MUSEUMS??!!!111!!", will showcase what their intent is.
They want people who aren't very informed in art history to get angry with them and then support their platforms of getting rid of current modern art in art museums (The hate is usually directed at Jeff Koons', Takashi Murakami's, and Damien Hirst's art.).
Without realizing that there are various different art museums/galleries that will display different forms of art.

While Roger Ebert has been kinda won over now, his old disqualifying reasons for why video games can never be art were just utter nonsense:
His main disqualifying reason? Audience participation in partaking of the art.
Which means: That also disqualifies kinetic art and theater as art forms too. Yes, there are theater plays that have different endings depending on audience reaction or participation.

And can I say that the Californian plein air art movement is highly overrated?
Cause it is.
I know you guys like to go outside to paint, but nearly every watercolor piece I see these days is landscapes, landscapes, landscapes, flowers, flowers, flowers... Hardly any illustration, human figures, abstract, or even still-life any more.
California can't always be 100% sunny too. So it's totally okay to paint watercolor pieces indoors, guys.
Don't show a hyena how well you can bite.--Mandi proverb

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I will admit, in regards to Modern art, I am very picky. It's hard to say what it is exactly but I think tend to be more interested in works where there was more intent behind it from the artist. That they're saying something and say something new. I don't think I can help it, maybe it has something to do with the way I've always been drawn to art with a narrative? But that's not my definition of art, that's just my definition of what interests me.

That's why I've never really been interested in most found object artists like Damien Hirst although he's insanely famous and influential. It's not that I don't get it it's more it just doesn't inspire me. Would I want it removed from museums? Course not.

Although using Duchamp and especially 'The Fountain' (a piece I do happen to like a lot actually) to argue for the pulling of modern art seems very odd today. Nearly a hundred years later it's still thought provoking but it's definitely lost a lot of its shock value.

Californian plein air art

Huh, I've never really heard of this (cause it's an american movement?). So this has been recently revived? I'm quite fond of impressionism but I do find it odd the way it sounds so restrictive to landscape? Although props to them painting outdoors, you may get some more vibrant colours but you're probably going to want to do the rest indoors.

I mean, I tried to paint outdoors once or twice...

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(Actually now that I think about it a little more, painting outdoors simply for the sake of painting outdoors is kinda superfluous.)
thoughts on this? (post by a successful dA artist on art pricing)

now the person who wrote, MrGremble this sells their character designs at $200+ a piece. these designs are a part of a closed species and are all created on a template, which is modified by MrGremble to fit the specific character.

personally, i strongly disagree that dozens of characters made using one template should sell for $200+ each. that seems ridiculous to me. considering their point about supply and demand, it makes more sense: they sell incredibly fast even at the high price, but that's simply because there are so few of this species (Grems, since calling them "this species" every time will get tedious) going around. new Grems come around very infrequently and their release is entirely up to whatever MrGremble thinks. it's an alright species, sure, and it's bizarrely successful, but i think it's kind of awful to drive the prices up so high.

i'd love to be able to design and sell character designs later on. i really, really disagree with the way this person handles business. i think art sale should be more on a basis of how long it takes to complete the drawing, like any other job.

but i currently don't sell anything i draw, so maybe i just have a flawed understanding of how it works.
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not a ship
The original OP is pretty long, and I'm usually asleep by now, but this seems like a pretty flexible opinion thread, so I won't get bashed. Guess I will just type away ;0

I think a good way to see people's plain opinion is their ORIGINAL definition of art. To me, Art is any creative piece of work, from writing to pen on paper to music, that can be displayed in any way.

Art bashing is a thing that shouldn't exist. People's interpretation of art is generally pretty different. I could draw Ford in the Nightmare Realm and consider it art- Likewise, I could create a business card and consider it art. Art is what the artist believes in art.

I do believe there are different categories of art, although they are broad. Poetry, literature, and other writing could be a single category in my eyes, perhaps broken into smaller categories. Drawings, animations, and other line, 3D, etc. types of pieces are art. They're different but the same in the way that they're all visual content that was created to be seen as a pictorial piece.

I'm sure that I could make plenty of different categories, but my point is, art is nearly any, if not all creative pieces.

Another thing that I am not a fan of is people comparing themselves to other peoples' art, and degrading themselves for it. I'm not Picasso or however you spell his name, but that doesn't make me a god-awful artist. Every visual artist draws, paints, etc. differently, so how you create is just you. Nobody should bring themselves down for that.
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personally i think trying to define art is pretty fruitless. with anything that's open to the level of interpretation that art and creativity is, a solid definition creates a wall between what is "real" art and what isn't. that just feels icky to me.
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not a ship
Not going to quote my old post since it's just a few up, but I am still curious about what people think about pricing commissions--if not in that specific case, then just in general.

Also would like to know what people think about closed vs. open species in general. They're really popular on dA and a lot of them end up being ridiculously expensive.
definitions of closed/open species for anyone who doesn't spend too much time on DeviantArt (Click to View)
I don't have an issue with the idea of either. Personally I am currently working on a species that I would like to be able to share with other people, but wouldn't really be comfortable letting anyone have at. Also I want to make money. ('s part of why i am curious about what people think about art pricing.) So I definitely don't have anything against closed species as long as the prices are reasonable. WHICH LEADS ME TO:

The economy on dA is insanely bad. There are plenty of artists who have reasonable prices and do a variety of commissions and handle them well, but most of them do not. I think most of the blame for the prices falls on the popularity of OCs. A lot of people hoard them like crazy, to the point where they own hundreds of characters that they never use or consider. With these people it usually feels like they buy only because they want to own something pretty, not because they're interested in drawing or writing or developing the character. And yeah, they bought it with their money and I guess the artist has no input from then on out, but I'm sure most of them would prefer that their designs actually get used.
And that's when the importance of high pricing comes in. No one wants to spend $200 on a design they're only going to tuck away in a pile of hundreds others. High price characters get used. Obviously most people can't get away with selling a design for $200, or if they do have the demand to get away with it, they're not that big of an asshole. (Seriously, if you sell an OC design for $200 on dA of all places, fuck you. No one should have to pay $200 for something made in a few hours on a generic template.)
So that's when you get the value tiers. Going to use Grems and Kimet as examples.
Grems are sold at $200 a pop, almost all designed by one person using a template.
Kimet are sold at $30-40 depending upon the complexity of the design and the person you hire, and each one is made with a unique pose.

IMO the quality of the designs is about equal, and the lore for Kimet is much more in-depth. Grems are sold for more than they're worth, or Kimet are sold for less, one of the two. But either way, when it comes to trading, there's a huge imbalance for the two relatively equal designs. No one in their right mind is going to trade away their $200 character for a $40 one, even if they look equally good. The price tiers and their effects on trading permeate through most OC trading and sharing, though Grems are definitely among the most exclusive and one of the worst (or best, depending upon how you look at it) examples.
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not a ship
Strange as hell...

ok quick question: how do these characters get used anyway?
they're just OCs. people draw art of them, get commissions of them, and some groups host prompts for you to draw or write your OC in a specific situation or with a theme. it's largely community based, but mostly you can just use them for whatever you want.
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not a ship

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