Social Justice and Activism
#21
So I guess to start off with and get out of the way: it's something I do not feel entirely confident speaking about seeing as I would only trust the opinion of a person who has either worked or studied the topic in depth, and I am neither of those.

Which is why I'm grateful for the links provided.

I suppose statistics can be construed in favour of certain agendas however, I do believe it exists and certain advantages and disadvantages are given due to gender bias.

Disadvantages due to being a mother are not fair but it does make sense why that would exist. Certainly in my experience I often wondered why, when my mother was clearly highly qualified was passed over for promotions or leadership positions in favour of men who, from the sound of it, were rather incompetent. Was that because of gender? Motherhood status? Or perhaps age? I also believe my sister mentioned on occasion better jobs being handed over to male co-workers while at university. I wonder why this is.
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#22
So here's a pretty basic question for you: if you are passionate about a work, be it a book, film or work of art, to what extent do you allow the creator of the work affect your opinion of the work itself?

The reason I bring this up here and now is because of the recent JonTron debacle. Even though the comedian's political and social views do not actually affect the actual content of his videos, how many of you will be turned away from his videos, future and/or present? Are there creators you make exceptions for? Why is that?
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#23
Oh, I haven't actually heard about the JonTron thing, looking into that now.

Well, so far all I have heard is his summary here, but I don't really have any issue with anything he's saying. I'm not gonna stop watching because of that.
Usually I'm going to try not to let someone's political etc views affect my opinion of their creative content. Two major exceptions I can think of off the top of my head. 1.: if, by viewing their work, I will be funding or otherwise directly supporting a cause that I disagree with, I am not going to look at their work. I can't really think of any good examples for this, except maybe, still in the vein of YouTube, drama-related vids. I do think they're entertaining a lot of the time but I try to avoid watching them because I do not want to support people who profit off of other people's misfortunes. This sort of combines into another reason: if their opinions are leaking into their work. Then it becomes a whole different topic, I think.
Anyway the 2nd reason: if I'm unable to watch their content without thinking about and being bothered by their views or actions. At that point it's actually affecting my ability to enjoy their content, so I would try to either get over it (if it's not a major thing) or just stop paying attention to them.

There are two things that I want to consider on this, which are: on the one hand, I don't think someone's opinions should affect how their creative work is judged (if the work is created as an outlet to share those views, it turns into a different subject, so this is just assuming their creative stuff is unrelated). On the other hand, I would be worried about beliefs getting tangled up in the work, and maybe spreading to or influencing an audience that shouldn't be targeted that way. I think YouTube has a big issue with this, since a lot of the viewers are children and it's important to consider how a creator's words and beliefs could influence their audience.
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#24
jontron is ok but doesn't look that way because he's not used to being political and doesn't know how that works
i am NOT a swede;
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#25
I used to like Jontron before the whole thing happened, and he turned out to be such a terrible person. You know, "Because of their genes rich blacks commit more crime than poor whites" and all that shit.
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#26
can you link to where he said that
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#27
This is what zhar showed me
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#28
Sure thing, it happened in the livestream debate he had with Destiny. He said some other pretty awful stuff in there too. Unfortunately I don't know exactly at what time he said this, there was a handy reddit post on everything he said in there, before the mods deleted it, so I can't find them right now. I can assure you though that he did say these things here, because I listened to them just a few days ago.





EDIT: Ah, thanks Baron, that's the one I was talking about
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#29
ah thank you, yeah there is some very questionable stuff in there. that said it's nothing so bad that'll prevent me from watching his stuff in the future. i've only read the quotes in Baron's link so far but i'll listen to the actual interview sometime tomorrow.

i'm sure hearing the video itself will provide some sort of different perspective but right now this isn't anything bad enough to prevent me from watching his videos. i don't agree with the things he's saying, but who he is as a real person is just completely separate from his content for me.
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#30
(03-21-2017, 03:06 AM)Ayaze Wrote: jontron is ok but doesn't look that way because he's not used to being political and doesn't know how that works

Yeah some people should stay out of political discussion for their own sakes...

But yeah, I've read the quotes, I've listened to enough of the video to know both had very different extreme views which I disagree with and I'm not defending Jontron but the Destiny guy definitely manipulated the arguments in certain ways. 

Jontron definitely made his own mess though :/

But back to the point: how does this affect viewers? Well I definitely believe you can admire someones work regardless of their views. Doug TenNaple is a great example for me as I grew up with the Neverhood and can't help but think of family when I think of that work and he is an extremely talented artist (even if all his characters look the same hahaha). I'll enjoy his work, but mainly due to how vocal the man is about his extreme views, I won't go out of my way to support him. I think a little different with dead creators like Lovecraft, you can't ignore he ended up creating a genre and the time period he lived in but he was also a massive racist and it does leak into some of his works. I will enjoy some of them regardless but I'll always point out to people that's who he was and where it shows.

So unless the content of Jons videos drastically changes I'm not opposed to watching his videos, and it doesn't change what I enjoyed before. After all, his politics are not why I watch them and I think that's something important for people to respect. Again, I won't go out of my way though to watch and support him and videos, especially if he decides to pull a TenNaple and go full activist.

I think I may as well add while the subject's still up that I watched boogie2988's video and I liked his stance because I believe what is really needed these days where people are pushed deeper and deeper into far left or right beliefs, are neutral or even mixed perspectives. I think it's extremely important.
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