Should Dippy Fresh Have Even Been In The Series?
#1
I've noticed that he's one of the show's most divisive characters. Some people love him and find him funny while others hate him and view him as poor character development for Mabel.

My personal thoughts on him is that while he has some funny moments and while I don't believe Mabel intended to replace her brother with DF, the show did a poor job of showing that and I think it would've been better if they removed him from the episode altogether. He could easily be removed from the episode and it wouldn't effect the plot.

What do you think?
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#2
This is all coming up because of Alex's tweet isn't it? https://twitter.com/_AlexHirsch/status/8...3292194817  Wink

I actually wish Alex had been allowed to keep that scene. Would’ve been great to see Dippy Fresh in later scenes with his head all twisted around. I’m kind of scaring myself with that image in my head. It would have perfect! Flippa-dead-dead!
Madness is Amazingness!
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#3
Eh, I still say Mabel should have offed him.

But it doesn't matter because a world without Dippy Fresh is a world without passion, without the spice of life, without meaning or a path to true spiritual completion. In short, in short, a world without Dippy Fresh is no world for me.

So flip a dip dip bros B)
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#4
The deleted scene that Alex tweeted was amazing. It literally made my day — I haven't seen something so darkly funny, and with the charm of Gravity Falls, in a very long time. It's also interesting how Alex refers to Dippy Fresh as a "phantom projection of Mabel's imagination" and an "inner demon." Too bad Disney made him cut this though, it was a fantastic scene.

My response to AwesomeDude's question (my apologies in advance for the wall of text — I'm just very much a big fan of Dippy Fresh haha): 

I think Dippy Fresh is an important character because he represents and satirizes Mabeland's brand of fantasy, acts as a foil to Dipper, and gives us deeper insight into Mabel's psyche. To explain, during the trial in Weirdmageddon 2, Judge Kitty Kitty Meow Meow Face-Shwarstein declares:

Judge Kitty Kitty Meow Meow Face-Shwarstein Wrote:We are here to try Dipper Pines in the case of fantasy vs. reality. If Dipper wins, Mabel will return with him to the real world. But if he loses, he will be banished forever and replaced with town darling Dippy Fresh.

This sets up two important dichotomies: not only fantasy vs. reality, but also Dippy Fresh vs. Dipper. Yes, Mabel considers permanently replacing Dipper with Dippy Fresh — but only because Dipper planned on leaving her when she needed him most.

Firstly, I think it's important to consider the circumstances under which Dippy Fresh was created. Mabel has relied on Dipper  throughout her entire life, so when Dipper decides to leave, Mabel is left without a support system — it's only natural for the bubble to give her a substitute of sorts. If there was no Dippy Fresh, that would mean Mabel didn't want Dipper — which contradicts her entire existential crisis.

(Of course, Dipper also comes to realize the twins need each other. His rejection of Ford's apprenticeship during his courtroom speech wasn't a desperate concession to Mabel; it was a realization that he needs Mabel too, as evident by his/Ford's defeat in Weirdmageddon 1, and his talk with Wendy.)

Despite Mabel's facade, it's clear she's struggling emotionally throughout Weirdmageddon 2. In fact, nearly every one of Mabeland's creations is an inner demon, including Dippy Fresh. They all initially appear as brightly colored playthings, but their true colors are revealed after Mabel hugs Dipper (that's when she becomes emotionally ready to finally confront her inner demons). Until that moment, Mabel bubble wraps everything in sight — including herself — as perfectly fine, and tries to ignore the messy realities underneath.

Dippy Fresh may be very "fresh" on the surface, but he's later revealed as a monster underneath; Mabel can pretend she's okay with Dippy Fresh, but she leaps at Dipper's offer to go home together without a second thought. Dippy Fresh is a superficial yes-man who, as an agent of Bill's bubble, inherently cannot mention reality, and therefore cannot help Mabel through her existential crisis, and therefore cannot support her emotionally. This makes Dippy Fresh the perfect foil for real Dipper, who represents reality, isn't disguising anything, and actually helps Mabel get though her troubles.

Without Dippy Fresh, there is no foil to compare with Dipper, and thus the entire fantasy vs. reality setup is much weaker. Like Dipper awkwardly tripping over himself in Double Dipper, or the manufactured products of the corporate music industry in Boyz Crazy, Gravity Falls often portrays figurative situations literally. If Weirdmageddon 2 is a literal interpretation of Mabel's preteen psyche, then Dippy Fresh's presence says loads about how she desperately yearns for Dipper, yet is deathly afraid of reality. Dippy Fresh is the interesting result that comes out of this kind of contradictory dilemma, since Dipper and reality are inseparable. This makes Dippy Fresh a fantastic way of satirizing the fantasy/denial camp, since his flashiness, though funny, is utterly incompetent at actually helping Mabel.

Fittingly, the episode ends with Xyler invoking Jean-Paul Sartre:

Xyler Wrote:Are we real? Is this reality? Jean-Paul Sartre postulated that every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance.

Mabel's existential crisis led her to forget why she was needed in reality, and prolong her childhood through fantasy. However, after revisiting her relationship with Dipper, she finds meaning in her life again, decides to take responsibility for her future, and defies Sartre's prediction of death by chance. It's a significant moment of growth for her, where she manages to truly grow as a character.

This makes Weirdmageddon 2 a sympathetic examination of what it means to experience a major change in your life, and a validation of the feelings of any kid who's ever been scared to grow up. Without Dippy Fresh to give us insight into her emotional bond with Dipper, Mabel would appear more as an immature drama queen; with Dippy Fresh, it's much clearer that she's really a normal kid who's just struggling with new emotional challenges that she's never experienced before.
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#5
(06-05-2017, 08:43 AM)ReptilePatrol Wrote: The deleted scene that Alex tweeted was amazing. It literally made my day — I haven't seen something so darkly funny, and with the charm of Gravity Falls, in a very long time. It's also interesting how Alex refers to Dippy Fresh as a "phantom projection of Mabel's imagination" and an "inner demon." Too bad Disney made him cut this though, it was a fantastic scene.

My response to AwesomeDude's question (my apologies in advance for the wall of text — I'm just very much a big fan of Dippy Fresh haha): 

I think Dippy Fresh is an important character because he represents and satirizes Mabeland's brand of fantasy, acts as a foil to Dipper, and gives us deeper insight into Mabel's psyche. To explain, during the trial in Weirdmageddon 2, Judge Kitty Kitty Meow Meow Face-Shwarstein declares:

Judge Kitty Kitty Meow Meow Face-Shwarstein Wrote:We are here to try Dipper Pines in the case of fantasy vs. reality. If Dipper wins, Mabel will return with him to the real world. But if he loses, he will be banished forever and replaced with town darling Dippy Fresh.

This sets up two important dichotomies: not only fantasy vs. reality, but also Dippy Fresh vs. Dipper. Yes, Mabel considers permanently replacing Dipper with Dippy Fresh — but only because Dipper planned on leaving her when she needed him most.

Firstly, I think it's important to consider the circumstances under which Dippy Fresh was created. Mabel has relied on Dipper  throughout her entire life, so when Dipper decides to leave, Mabel is left without a support system — it's only natural for the bubble to give her a substitute of sorts. If there was no Dippy Fresh, that would mean Mabel didn't want Dipper — which contradicts her entire existential crisis.

(Of course, Dipper also comes to realize the twins need each other. His rejection of Ford's apprenticeship during his courtroom speech wasn't a desperate concession to Mabel; it was a realization that he needs Mabel too, as evident by his/Ford's defeat in Weirdmageddon 1, and his talk with Wendy.)

Despite Mabel's facade, it's clear she's struggling emotionally throughout Weirdmageddon 2. In fact, nearly every one of Mabeland's creations is an inner demon, including Dippy Fresh. They all initially appear as brightly colored playthings, but their true colors are revealed after Mabel hugs Dipper (that's when she becomes emotionally ready to finally confront her inner demons). Until that moment, Mabel bubble wraps everything in sight — including herself — as perfectly fine, and tries to ignore the messy realities underneath.

Dippy Fresh may be very "fresh" on the surface, but he's later revealed as a monster underneath; Mabel can pretend she's okay with Dippy Fresh, but she leaps at Dipper's offer to go home together without a second thought. Dippy Fresh is a superficial yes-man who, as an agent of Bill's bubble, inherently cannot mention reality, and therefore cannot help Mabel through her existential crisis, and therefore cannot support her emotionally. This makes Dippy Fresh the perfect foil for real Dipper, who represents reality, isn't disguising anything, and actually helps Mabel get though her troubles.

Without Dippy Fresh, there is no foil to compare with Dipper, and thus the entire fantasy vs. reality setup is much weaker. Like Dipper awkwardly tripping over himself in Double Dipper, or the manufactured products of the corporate music industry in Boyz Crazy, Gravity Falls often portrays figurative situations literally. If Weirdmageddon 2 is a literal interpretation of Mabel's preteen psyche, then Dippy Fresh's presence says loads about how she desperately yearns for Dipper, yet is deathly afraid of reality. Dippy Fresh is the interesting result that comes out of this kind of contradictory dilemma, since Dipper and reality are inseparable. This makes Dippy Fresh a fantastic way of satirizing the fantasy/denial camp, since his flashiness, though funny, is utterly incompetent at actually helping Mabel.

Fittingly, the episode ends with Xyler invoking Jean-Paul Sartre:

Xyler Wrote:Are we real? Is this reality? Jean-Paul Sartre postulated that every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance.

Mabel's existential crisis led her to forget why she was needed in reality, and prolong her childhood through fantasy. However, after revisiting her relationship with Dipper, she finds meaning in her life again, decides to take responsibility for her future, and defies Sartre's prediction of death by chance. It's a significant moment of growth for her, where she manages to truly grow as a character.

This makes Weirdmageddon 2 a sympathetic examination of what it means to experience a major change in your life, and a validation of the feelings of any kid who's ever been scared to grow up. Without Dippy Fresh to give us insight into her emotional bond with Dipper, Mabel would appear more as an immature drama queen; with Dippy Fresh, it's much clearer that she's really a normal kid who's just struggling with new emotional challenges that she's never experienced before.

The thing is with Dippy Fresh though is that if you removed him from the episode, no major plot points would change. And I think that;s poor writing if Mabel actually intended to replace her brother with DF. Imagine how that would effect someone if they found out one of their family members replaced them.
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#6
(06-05-2017, 05:46 PM)AwesomeDude1 Wrote: The thing is with Dippy Fresh though is that if you removed him from the episode, no major plot points would change. And I think that;s poor writing if Mabel actually intended to replace her brother with DF. Imagine how that would effect someone if they found out one of their family members replaced them.

No major plot points change, but the story is fundamentally different, mainly due to a major contradiction.

You ask me to imagine how being replaced would affect someone. But have you ever thought about how Mabel felt when Dipper announced that he didn't need her anymore, and would be running off with Ford?

If Dipper replaces Mabel with Ford, then it's only natural for Mabel to fill in the void with Dippy Fresh. The bubble gives Mabel what she wants: she wanted Dipper at her side, so the bubble made Dippy Fresh. And she didn't want reality, so the bubble cut out all the realistic aspects of its new creation. Of course, since this replacement turned out to be useless, she ran off with real Dipper at her first chance.

If there was no Dippy Fresh, that means Mabel didn't want Dipper, which contradicts her entire emotional dilemma.
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#7
(06-06-2017, 12:26 AM)ReptilePatrol Wrote:
(06-05-2017, 05:46 PM)AwesomeDude1 Wrote: The thing is with Dippy Fresh though is that if you removed him from the episode, no major plot points would change. And I think that;s poor writing if Mabel actually intended to replace her brother with DF. Imagine how that would effect someone if they found out one of their family members replaced them.

No major plot points change, but the story is fundamentally different, mainly due to a major contradiction.

You ask me to imagine how being replaced would affect someone. But have you ever thought about how Mabel felt when Dipper announced that he didn't need her anymore, and would be running off with Ford?

If Dipper replaces Mabel with Ford, then it's only natural for Mabel to fill in the void with Dippy Fresh. The bubble gives Mabel what she wants: she wanted Dipper at her side, so the bubble made Dippy Fresh. And she didn't want reality, so the bubble cut out all the realistic aspects of its new creation. Of course, since this replacement turned out to be useless, she ran off with real Dipper at her first chance.

If there was no Dippy Fresh, that means Mabel didn't want Dipper, which contradicts her entire emotional dilemma.

Fair points. But since Dippy Fresh was so different that the normal Dipper, it made it look like that Mabel doesn't like her brother for who he is and wanted him to be something else. Maybe that wasn't the writer's intention, but it came across that way to a good amount of people.
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#8
That's their problem. That's what happens when you get into creative endeavours, you get divided opinions and interpretations. It's tough but also what makes it so gratifying at the same time.
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#9
(06-06-2017, 03:40 AM)AwesomeDude1 Wrote: Fair points. But since Dippy Fresh was so different that the normal Dipper, it made it look like that Mabel doesn't like her brother for who he is and wanted him to be something else. Maybe that wasn't the writer's intention, but it came across that way to a good amount of people.

I can see where you're coming from with that interpretation, but here's three perspectives I think you might have overlooked:

First, Mabel makes the case for why she made Dippy Fresh at all (emphasis added):

Mabel Wrote:... and now that you guys are here, it's finally perfect!

[Dipper: Listen, Mabel, we're not here to party. All of this is crazy!]

Ugghh, I figured you might say something like that, Dipper. That's why I prepared a backup Dipper with a more supportive attitude.

She first makes it clear that Mabeland is not perfect until she gets her real friends, which is likely because the bubble is inherently incapable of providing her with anything real.

She then makes it clear that Dippy Fresh is "a backup Dipper with a more supportive attitude" — which makes perfect sense given how it's Dipper who first abandoned her for Ford when she needed him most, and then responds with "All of this is crazy!"

Dippy Fresh is not a full-on replacement; he is a backup (a temporary replacement at best). Mabel would prefer real Dipper, but can't have real Dipper if real Dipper is running off with Ford (she also can't have real Dipper since reality is the one thing the bubble cannot provide).


Secondly, Dipper later sees right though Mabel's facade (emphasis added):

Dipper Wrote:Mabel, listen. I might not have all the answers. I'm not stylish — and I'm not cool — and I can't make pugs appear out of thin air.

But I know one thing well, and that's you. And I know that although you might not act like it, you don't want to be in this fantasy world.

You're scared — of growing up.

Dipper sees right through the insincerity of Mabel's various creations. He knows that Mabel doesn't want to stay in the bubble with Dippy Fresh, because he knows Dippy Fresh being "cool" is useless in actually caring for Mabel. Dippy Fresh may claim to be supportive of Mabel, but really he's a superficial yes-man.

He knows Mabel loves him for who he is — otherwise he wouldn't advertise himself (and by extension reality) as better simply by virtue of him being who he is. And unsurprisingly, Dipper is proven correct — the instant he says he's rejecting Ford's apprenticeship, Mabel drops everything and decides to go home with him.

However, in the meantime, it's entirely reasonable for Mabel to substitute Dipper's love and warmth with superficial trappings on Dippy Fresh — it would be less creepy than a Double Dipper-esque clone (but hollow and bland instead of a real clone), and it fits with the general imaginative design of the episode. 

Finally, Alex Hirsch had this to say the other day on Twitter (emphasis added):

Alex Hirsch Wrote:Dippy Fresh is a phantom projection of Mabel's imagination- I'd say we all need to murder our inner demons sometimes

Alex makes it clear that despite appearing cool and fresh, Dippy Fresh is really a monster underneath his superficial exterior — much like all of Mabeland.

If you accept my earlier premise that Mabeland is a physical manifestation of Mabel's psyche, then it's clear that Dippy Fresh is Mabel's way of pretending everything is going great with her relationship with Dipper, even though in reality it's not — Mabel's last encounter with Dipper was pretty emotionally wrecking for her. Therefore Dippy Fresh appears all cool and fresh on the surface, but is a demon underneath.

And Mabel herself makes it clear that she does not prefer Dippy Fresh's coolness and freshness over real Dipper. At the end of the episode, she abandons everything in Mabeland to return to reality with Dipper.


Ultimately, given that Mabel, Dipper, and Alex Hirsch all contradict your theory, I think a more nuanced approach from Mabel's POV might be more useful in uncovering what the writers really intended. However, I don't fault you if that's what you picked up — but that's a problem with the directing on the episode, not with the characters.

(06-06-2017, 05:11 AM)Baron Num Nums Wrote: That's their problem. That's what happens when you get into creative endeavours, you get divided opinions and interpretations. It's tough but also what makes it so gratifying at the same time.

Indeed, quite tough yet gratifying. I think the main "problem" with Weirdmageddon 2 (scare quotes because impo it's one of Gravity Falls' best) is that Mabel's emotional dilemma is not explored from Mabel's point of view. I get that they wanted to keep things consistent with it being from Dipper's point of view, but expecting the audience to be as cognizant as Dipper is of Mabel's subtle ticks might've been too much, regardless of how nuanced and brilliant Kristen Schaal's performance is. And most people probably don't know Jean Paul-Sartre either. But at least it gives us substantial material to dig into on repeat viewings :)
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#10
I never thought of it that way. It does make sense. But it isn't made very clear in the episode and it still has poor writing.
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